Wednesday, December 29, 2004
From a posting to APRSSIG:
> Is there some web site that I can go to to get a basic understanding of other> packet modes (like the ones being discussed here)?
The KA7EHK AX25 Packet handbook would be a good start...
> I downloaded Airmail, but it looks like it is only setup to work on HF. I've> only got 144 and 440 capabilities - is there any packet, other than APRS, that> works on 2 meters?
Airmail is the HF side of the Winlink2k system. For 2 meters and "packet" you want to download the Winlink Client program Paclink-AGW.
Don't do that until you try the basic BBS style functionality of the Telpac nodes. That's the old LM/RM/KM (list /read /kill) messages. That can be done with any terminal program, like hyperterm on a windows system, and standard TNC and radio. It should work fine on a Kenwood D7 or D700.
As mentioned earlier, you can find Winlink Telpac Nodes in your area.
(Note that the decaffinated TNC in the Kenwoods prevent it from being useful with PacLink or Telpac. Kenwood could have sold thousands and thousands of radios to the blossoming ARES system as they have the only decent 9k6 system with integrated TNC but instead they choose to save a few pennys. bah humbug )
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
> Is there some web site that I can go to to get a basic understanding of other> packet modes (like the ones being discussed here)?
The KA7EHK AX25 Packet handbook would be a good start...
> I downloaded Airmail, but it looks like it is only setup to work on HF. I've> only got 144 and 440 capabilities - is there any packet, other than APRS, that> works on 2 meters?
Airmail is the HF side of the Winlink2k system. For 2 meters and "packet" you want to download the Winlink Client program Paclink-AGW.
Don't do that until you try the basic BBS style functionality of the Telpac nodes. That's the old LM/RM/KM (list /read /kill) messages. That can be done with any terminal program, like hyperterm on a windows system, and standard TNC and radio. It should work fine on a Kenwood D7 or D700.
As mentioned earlier, you can find Winlink Telpac Nodes in your area.
(Note that the decaffinated TNC in the Kenwoods prevent it from being useful with PacLink or Telpac. Kenwood could have sold thousands and thousands of radios to the blossoming ARES system as they have the only decent 9k6 system with integrated TNC but instead they choose to save a few pennys. bah humbug )
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
Tuesday, December 28, 2004
Selling Winlink to APRS list
Here's a posting I made to the APRSSIG discussion list. They were talking of the importance of connected mode packet but it seems very few were aware of what is happening in the Winlink arena.
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
---
The resergence in connected mode packet is called Winlink2k.
Far from perfect(*) but it's showing some incredible activity and, for better or worse, has even been adopted by the ARRL/ARES as the way to go.
It's an excellent mix of Internet and Amateur technology much like APRS but for real Email messages instead of one line Instant Messages.
It's fairly simple to set up a VHF/UHF server (called TELPAK) and provide services to the local community.
It would be possible, in the minimal BBS mode of Telpak, to send and receive messages even using an Kenwood with the built in crippled TNC.. Real email from a mobile with a PDA for a keyboard/display...
Check it out at: http://www.winlink.org
Winlink Discussion list is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wl2kemcomm/
Winlink nodes are currently available on the Firenet service..
Bill - WA7NWP
http://www.lintronix.com/winxastir
(*) A winlink station will only do a tenth of what can be done with a community Packet server running Linux... Similarly, it's 10 times easier to set up and run a Winlink server...
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
---
The resergence in connected mode packet is called Winlink2k.
Far from perfect(*) but it's showing some incredible activity and, for better or worse, has even been adopted by the ARRL/ARES as the way to go.
It's an excellent mix of Internet and Amateur technology much like APRS but for real Email messages instead of one line Instant Messages.
It's fairly simple to set up a VHF/UHF server (called TELPAK) and provide services to the local community.
It would be possible, in the minimal BBS mode of Telpak, to send and receive messages even using an Kenwood with the built in crippled TNC.. Real email from a mobile with a PDA for a keyboard/display...
Check it out at: http://www.winlink.org
Winlink Discussion list is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wl2kemcomm/
Winlink nodes are currently available on the Firenet service..
Bill - WA7NWP
http://www.lintronix.com/winxastir
(*) A winlink station will only do a tenth of what can be done with a community Packet server running Linux... Similarly, it's 10 times easier to set up and run a Winlink server...
Wednesday, December 22, 2004
Winlink Wins
> > > > "Why not have a poll of the people involved? If you, as an ARES/RACES
There's no need for a poll. Winlink wins. It makes use of various modes "efficiently" and works for both the simple or the complex.
With my mobile packet station (HP95 + braindead Paccom Handipacket) I can send and receive Email through any Winlink gateway.
If I had a wizy Winders XP system, I could do the same with attachements using the Email client of choice.
Winlink has automatic fallback. If channel A fails, go to B, to C, to D and finally even an E.
I'm afraid experience is showing that trying to run TCP/IP on legacy packet systems isn't viable... Winlink servers only do 1/10 what a full system can do, but it's also 10 times easier to install and keep running. Thus there are 10X more folks both capable and willing to do it.
I have real heartburn with HOW they sucked this in to ARES, but it was a reasonable choice.
It's even better now that folks that want to do Winlink can -- and the folks that want to do Linux (etc) can do so and support the Winlink system at the same time. That's the best of both worlds. The resergence of digital amateur communications is here.
Now if only we had something that would go (faster then) 9600...
Bill
----
A reply:
Yeah, I'm buying all this, but...Lets take the 9.0 earthquake in Puget Sound. Assuming my EOC is not a pile of rubble, we can get in and the generator starts, I now have local voice comms in the area and we start doing the ICS thing. We have a need to get "written" messages around, so I fire up the packet stuff. At the EOC, I can hit the local TelPac node, but he is off the air (or on the air, but his comcast connection is dead). How do I get to the guy in Woodinville who is still on the air and is a PMBO that can forward on HF? My field units, using their HP95 and braindead PACCOM connected to an HT, can only get as far as the EOC, maybe. Most of my traffic is local anyway, do I really want to take it all to Woodinville and then to Texas and back again? Do I run a PMBO at the EOC? What should the topology really look like?
Good questions all. I'm not in to the fine points of the system. I'll let the folks in the core circles do that. I'm just spouting technology... Basically, I believe the core networking tenet of having backup, IE.two of everything, is what's needed. We should have two "serious" PMBO's in the region, on different ISP's,with alternate RF channels, etc. So if one gets covered with lava, the other still runs.
There's still lots to be said for basic packet networking -- too bad most folks don't know how it works and the system has so degenerated... Bill
---
A bit more:
Since Winlink does the radio part well (airlink> protocol) and TCP/IP does the routing well, why not use the Winlink protocol engine carrying IP datagrams. This sounds like it would be the right way to go.
Part of the beauty of Winlink is that they optimize the transmission on the air. None of the overhead of TCP/IP.
It does just like UUCP does. Take the messages, compress them good into one teeny file and then bulk transfer that one file from point A to B as efficiently as possible. The file is decompress and unpacked
at the receiving station for standard SMTP delivery.
Running TCP/IP that way would be similar to using TCP/IP via carrier pigeon.
It is intriguing to consider using the UUCP system for exchanging messages in a similar fashion with smarter (NewQPSK/Pactor X/RFDT) modes.
Bill
There's no need for a poll. Winlink wins. It makes use of various modes "efficiently" and works for both the simple or the complex.
With my mobile packet station (HP95 + braindead Paccom Handipacket) I can send and receive Email through any Winlink gateway.
If I had a wizy Winders XP system, I could do the same with attachements using the Email client of choice.
Winlink has automatic fallback. If channel A fails, go to B, to C, to D and finally even an E.
I'm afraid experience is showing that trying to run TCP/IP on legacy packet systems isn't viable... Winlink servers only do 1/10 what a full system can do, but it's also 10 times easier to install and keep running. Thus there are 10X more folks both capable and willing to do it.
I have real heartburn with HOW they sucked this in to ARES, but it was a reasonable choice.
It's even better now that folks that want to do Winlink can -- and the folks that want to do Linux (etc) can do so and support the Winlink system at the same time. That's the best of both worlds. The resergence of digital amateur communications is here.
Now if only we had something that would go (faster then) 9600...
Bill
----
A reply:
Yeah, I'm buying all this, but...Lets take the 9.0 earthquake in Puget Sound. Assuming my EOC is not a pile of rubble, we can get in and the generator starts, I now have local voice comms in the area and we start doing the ICS thing. We have a need to get "written" messages around, so I fire up the packet stuff. At the EOC, I can hit the local TelPac node, but he is off the air (or on the air, but his comcast connection is dead). How do I get to the guy in Woodinville who is still on the air and is a PMBO that can forward on HF? My field units, using their HP95 and braindead PACCOM connected to an HT, can only get as far as the EOC, maybe. Most of my traffic is local anyway, do I really want to take it all to Woodinville and then to Texas and back again? Do I run a PMBO at the EOC? What should the topology really look like?
Good questions all. I'm not in to the fine points of the system. I'll let the folks in the core circles do that. I'm just spouting technology... Basically, I believe the core networking tenet of having backup, IE.two of everything, is what's needed. We should have two "serious" PMBO's in the region, on different ISP's,with alternate RF channels, etc. So if one gets covered with lava, the other still runs.
There's still lots to be said for basic packet networking -- too bad most folks don't know how it works and the system has so degenerated... Bill
---
A bit more:
Since Winlink does the radio part well (airlink> protocol) and TCP/IP does the routing well, why not use the Winlink protocol engine carrying IP datagrams. This sounds like it would be the right way to go.
Part of the beauty of Winlink is that they optimize the transmission on the air. None of the overhead of TCP/IP.
It does just like UUCP does. Take the messages, compress them good into one teeny file and then bulk transfer that one file from point A to B as efficiently as possible. The file is decompress and unpacked
at the receiving station for standard SMTP delivery.
Running TCP/IP that way would be similar to using TCP/IP via carrier pigeon.
It is intriguing to consider using the UUCP system for exchanging messages in a similar fashion with smarter (NewQPSK/Pactor X/RFDT) modes.
Bill
Saturday, December 18, 2004
Wetnet Seti December 2004
Members 15 - Results received 50003 - Total CPU time 40.373 years
1) n7ugg 20717 11.655 years 4 hr 55 min 41.6 sec Sat Dec 18 08:48:47 2004 United States
2) wa7qfr 8662 4.923 years 4 hr 58 min 45.0 sec Sat Dec 18 18:21:59 2004 United States
3) n7xy 5668 6.090 years 9 hr 24 min 44.5 sec Sat Dec 18 17:50:09 2004 United States
4) kd7qkl 4427 6.286 years 12 hr 26 min 22.1 sec Sun Dec 5 15:11:44 2004 United States
5) kc7igt 3207 1.981 years 5 hr 24 min 44.7 sec Sat Dec 18 16:54:06 2004 United States
6) n7uqa 1638 1.781 years 9 hr 31 min 27.7 sec Sat Mar 1 19:24:55 2003 United States
7) ac7yy 1534 4675 hr 42 min 3 hr 02 min 52.9 sec Sat Dec 18 17:02:39 2004 United States
8) n0fpf 1092 1.480 years 11 hr 52 min 23.6 sec Sat Dec 18 18:41:17 2004 United States
9) wa7nwp 850 1.347 years 13 hr 52 min 59.0 sec Mon Aug 23 04:28:08 2004 United States
10) n7ipb 614 5112 hr 58 min 8 hr 19 min 38.3 sec Mon Dec 6 16:41:01 2004 United States
11) k7ip 472 1.446 years 26 hr 49 min 50.2 sec Wed May 19 03:38:25 2004 United States
12) 359 4206 hr 04 min 11 hr 42 min 57.9 sec Sat Apr 3 06:56:34 2004 United States
13) 312 3554 hr 23 min 11 hr 23 min 32.2 sec Sat Nov 22 18:41:34 2003 United States
14) huso 251 5464 hr 01 min 21 hr 46 min 08.4 sec Fri Dec 17 03:39:20 2004 United States
15) wa7nwp-1 200 6615 hr 21 min 33 hr 04 min 36.5 sec Sat Dec 18 17:56:52 2004 United States
1) n7ugg 20717 11.655 years 4 hr 55 min 41.6 sec Sat Dec 18 08:48:47 2004 United States
2) wa7qfr 8662 4.923 years 4 hr 58 min 45.0 sec Sat Dec 18 18:21:59 2004 United States
3) n7xy 5668 6.090 years 9 hr 24 min 44.5 sec Sat Dec 18 17:50:09 2004 United States
4) kd7qkl 4427 6.286 years 12 hr 26 min 22.1 sec Sun Dec 5 15:11:44 2004 United States
5) kc7igt 3207 1.981 years 5 hr 24 min 44.7 sec Sat Dec 18 16:54:06 2004 United States
6) n7uqa 1638 1.781 years 9 hr 31 min 27.7 sec Sat Mar 1 19:24:55 2003 United States
7) ac7yy 1534 4675 hr 42 min 3 hr 02 min 52.9 sec Sat Dec 18 17:02:39 2004 United States
8) n0fpf 1092 1.480 years 11 hr 52 min 23.6 sec Sat Dec 18 18:41:17 2004 United States
9) wa7nwp 850 1.347 years 13 hr 52 min 59.0 sec Mon Aug 23 04:28:08 2004 United States
10) n7ipb 614 5112 hr 58 min 8 hr 19 min 38.3 sec Mon Dec 6 16:41:01 2004 United States
11) k7ip 472 1.446 years 26 hr 49 min 50.2 sec Wed May 19 03:38:25 2004 United States
12) 359 4206 hr 04 min 11 hr 42 min 57.9 sec Sat Apr 3 06:56:34 2004 United States
13) 312 3554 hr 23 min 11 hr 23 min 32.2 sec Sat Nov 22 18:41:34 2003 United States
14) huso 251 5464 hr 01 min 21 hr 46 min 08.4 sec Fri Dec 17 03:39:20 2004 United States
15) wa7nwp-1 200 6615 hr 21 min 33 hr 04 min 36.5 sec Sat Dec 18 17:56:52 2004 United States
Tuesday, December 07, 2004
Bloglines News Aggregator is even better
It was another of those Wow - I didn't know it did that moments.
I've recently been enjoying the magic of following my favorite news pages by using http://www.bloglines.com to aggregate the news so I could go to one page and see the updates since my last visit. This saves having to visit each web page separately and manually look for new entries.
The bloglines website reads the RSS/Atom feeds hourly from all the pages I enter and remembers which are new. I organized my 20 (or so) pages in to three groups and can then work through the new entries looking for articles interesting enough to read in full.
This was saving time and working good -- or so I thought. I was still selecting the individual web pages that had new entries. One at a time. Accidentally I hit the title for one of my three groups. Hey - it opened too. Not only did it load the feeds, but it showed ALL the webpages in that group. This is really cool. I don't have to work through all the pages one at a time. One click and I get a summary of all the new postings.
What will we do with all the time we save? :-)
Note to self: Check out http://www.feedburner.com
I've recently been enjoying the magic of following my favorite news pages by using http://www.bloglines.com to aggregate the news so I could go to one page and see the updates since my last visit. This saves having to visit each web page separately and manually look for new entries.
The bloglines website reads the RSS/Atom feeds hourly from all the pages I enter and remembers which are new. I organized my 20 (or so) pages in to three groups and can then work through the new entries looking for articles interesting enough to read in full.
This was saving time and working good -- or so I thought. I was still selecting the individual web pages that had new entries. One at a time. Accidentally I hit the title for one of my three groups. Hey - it opened too. Not only did it load the feeds, but it showed ALL the webpages in that group. This is really cool. I don't have to work through all the pages one at a time. One click and I get a summary of all the new postings.
What will we do with all the time we save? :-)
Note to self: Check out http://www.feedburner.com
Thursday, December 02, 2004
TNC-7
From the HamHud mailing list. This is a pointer to the high speed TNC7 which is one of the very few options currently available for building a reasonable data network on ham frequencies. Please note that when you start considering anything more then a point-to-point link between two stations, a system like this on a repeater with multiple users will be much faster then the DStar even if it has a higher base speed.
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juergen" <kjshover@>
> Btw, a link Scott made me aware of: http://www.tnc7multi.de/index.html
> That's packet radio in Europe. An ARM7 based TNC which currently
> supports up to 76kB in support of Flexnet runing on 70cm but able to
> go to 106kB. All software implementation, no modem chips or other
> historic IC's!!! Includes forward error correction modes which are pretty popular.
> I couldn't find out whether it still supports legacy modes (1200Bd)
> but it could be added w/o problems. Price EUR 185 (= due to the weak $> ~$255).
> They also have a similar model for digipeaters.
>From what I found out TNC7 firmware is open source.
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juergen" <kjshover@>
> Btw, a link Scott made me aware of: http://www.tnc7multi.de/index.html
> That's packet radio in Europe. An ARM7 based TNC which currently
> supports up to 76kB in support of Flexnet runing on 70cm but able to
> go to 106kB. All software implementation, no modem chips or other
> historic IC's!!! Includes forward error correction modes which are pretty popular.
> I couldn't find out whether it still supports legacy modes (1200Bd)
> but it could be added w/o problems. Price EUR 185 (= due to the weak $> ~$255).
> They also have a similar model for digipeaters.
>From what I found out TNC7 firmware is open source.
